[Elphel-support] Ordering stereo camera

Tue Sep 6 23:33:46 PDT 2016

Dear Olga,

Thank you for your good explanation. It is your misunderstanding.That's Not What I Meant. I mean is why you have added M12 lenses in addition tocamera included lenses. As you write in last quote, the camera has lenses andboth of them (included and M12) have 4.5 mm focal lens. In the other words, isit necessary to purchase M12 lenses?

Best Regards Elham

    On Wednesday, September 7, 2016 12:03 AM, Olga Filippova <support-list at support.elphel.com> wrote:

 Dear Elham,

I will send you another quote in the next e-mail. 
We will include SD-card and micro USB cable free of charge as these items are part of the camera. SD-card is needed for initial booting the camera and for recovery. Camera lenses are sold separately from the camera, because we do not manufacture lenses, we have to purchase them, so we can not provide discount, but please note that we sell these lenses at the cost price. 
We can make the camera base at 22cm and 44cm, the base is not variable, unless you disassemble camera and modify the base.

Best Regards,

Olga

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 8:05 AM, Elham Omrani <elh.omrani at yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Olga,Thank you for providing the requested information. According to mysupervisor’s opinion, we don’t need power supply and microSD card. Why have you added  extra 4 M12 Lenses?Are camera baselines 22 and 44 cm? or are  these variable?This is addresses of Dr mousazadeh:Hossein mousazadehDepartment ofMechanical Engineering of biosystemsCollege of Agricultureand Natural ResourcesUniversity of TehranDaneshkadeh Crosspostal code: 31587-77871
Karaj - Alborz - Iranphone/fax:+98-2632801011 / +98(26)32808138Cell phone: +989120264801,+989389522974Email: hmousazade at ut.ac.irI'm looking forward hearing from you.
Best regardsElham

    On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 12:41 AM, Elphel Support <support-list at support.elphel. com> wrote:

 Elpham,

Using dual 2-lens system does not give you any advantage compared to two separate systems, and for research project I would rather use 2 separate, for simplicity.

You know that there are many ways to process multi-view images, most use feature extraction and keypoints before calculating disparity and so the distance. 

Alternatively you can start from correlation (in most cases a superposition of the correlation and phase correlation) of the (usually just 2) images trying to get distance to objects that do not have easily identifiable feature but still have many high-frequency components.

Both paths have some advantages and disadvantages, correlation provides better Z-resolution (you can easily operate with disparities being a small fraction of a pixel - like 0.1), but it is easy to get into ambiguous results, especially when the objects have some periodic structures.

Using more than 2 view simultaneously can reduce ambiguity significantly, and finally get high precision distance measurements before the image is analyzed for feature extraction. Right now we do not have this code in FPGA, but it is one of our close targets that we'll work on when the base software for the cameras will be finished, so correlation will be done at "hardware" speeds in the same NC393-based cameras running new code. Meanwhile you could post-process images on a regular PC.

I've seen much less works on the distance measurements with multiple-view systems compared to the standard 2-sensor systems, so that would give you an opportunity to do an interesting research.

You could play (just online or download sources for analysis) with our "triclops" images that are linked on our web site to get an idea of the advantage of the multiple view systems.

Andrey

---- On Mon, 29 Aug 2016 12:27:28 -0700 Elham Omrani<elh.omrani at yahoo.com> wrote ---- 

Dear Olga,Thank you for  providing the requested information. Yes, we want to use Inline camera as 2 stereo cameras. Inner lenses are a stereo vision system with smaller baseline and focal length (suitable for near distance) and outer lenses are a stereo system with bigger baseline and focal length (for far distance). As you know, stereo vision error increases with increasing distance. Because of this, researchers uses 2 stereo camera in a unified system to decrease disparity error.If you use same baseline and focal lenses, What is your purpose of designing H- model or inline model with same baseline and focal lenses?About lens, In addition to 4.5 mm lens, what lens do you recommend (we prefer bigger than 4.5 focal lens)?  I'm looking forward hearing from you.Elham

    On Monday, August 29, 2016 9:53 PM, Olga Filippova <support-list at support.elphel. com> wrote:

 Dear Elham,

can you please explain the technical reasons for ordering inline camera? It looks like you plan to use Inline camera as 2 stereo cameras with 2 different bases. This is fine, but it has been done before, while the H-camera presents interesting research opportunities. 

Practically speaking we offer 4.5mm lenses (custom adjustment has been made to fit this lens to the camera, using 3 different adapter rings, as can be seen here: http://www3.elphel.com/ importwiki?title=File: N125B04530W_adapter.jpeg) But we do not offer any 9 mm lenses - we have not tested any of 9mm lenses and we don't have these in stock, however you are welcome to purchase such lenses separately and install them on the camera.

I am researching the exporting regulations to Iran. I think we can ship our camera products to Iran, but I need to receive answers from the exporting agency, to make sure.

We offer standard 48V power supply that converts AC power from wall outlet to 48V DC power. The camera uses 3.3V, but the power supply has to be minimum 12V, or 18V better, especially for camera with 4 image sensors. You can power the camera from the boat power supply. For development it is nice to have a wall adapter, like the 48 V AC-DC converter we offer (or you can use the one you already have or can purchase locally).

Best Regards,

On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 12:55 AM, Elham Omrani <elh.omrani at yahoo.com> wrote:

Hello Olga,
Thank you for your attention to this matter. Yes, I remember, but Contrary to my opinion, my supervisor emphasis on purchasing Inline model. Therefore we decide to order inline model. so please quote for inline model, with 22 cm inner baseline(for inner lenses )  with 4.5 mm lens, and 44 cm outer baseline with 9 mm lens. 
We want to ship the camera to Iran. Do you send the camera with DHL post?
 According to your website, the required power for the 10393 system board is 3.3 VDC (http://wiki.elphel.com/index. php?title=10393) and Why do you use 48 v power supply ? what is required power for the camera? we have 12 VDC and 20-30 VDC(variable) on our robot, is it suitable for the camera? or we must purchase 48 v power supply ?
I'm looking forward hearing from you.
Elham 

    On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 1:44 AM, support-list <support-list at support.elphel. com> wrote:

 Dear Elham,

Elphel is a small company, and all our funds come from the product sales - we do not use any government funding, private investments or crowdfunding. Our margin is lower than 50%, so such discount means that we already pay more for the components than receive for the camera sale.

That is OK, we do sometimes donate to interesting projects, but right now we are still in the process of upgrading to the new line of the cameras, that involves rather expensive R&D that does not pay back immediately. We use now all the available resources to shorten the transition time, it is going well so far, but still there is work to be done.

We may consider donating to interesting projects in the future, but right now it is all what we can afford to offer.

As for the brochure - we do not yet have any for the new camera, all the information we have ourselves is posted online. Code is on Github (https://github.com/Elphel),  more information on our wiki (http://wiki.elphel.com/index. php?title=10393 , http://wiki.elphel.com/index. php?title=Poky_2.0_manual, ) more picture in the blog post - http://blog.elphel.com/2016/ 05/3d-print-your-camera- freedom/

Here - http://wiki.elphel.com/index. php?title=Elphel_camera_ assemblies (the link is on our home page) you can take our camera apart and look at each component (all components have CAD files on our wiki - files you can use to build the parts).

Andrey

---- On Tue, 02 Aug 2016 08:15:32 -0700 Elham Omrani <elh.omrani at yahoo.com> wrote ---- 

Dear Andrey,Thank you for your excellent suggestion. we will be very happy if you contribute in this project. could you please raise the percent of your sponsorship? furthermore, is it possible to send us the NC393-H brochure?
we are sincerely grateful for your contribution
Elham

 Dear Elham,

Your project seems very interesting.  We can sponsor 50% of the cost of the NC393-H for your team and provide additional technical support. Will the result of your research be open for others to reproduce?

Andrey

---- On Mon, 01 Aug 2016 01:27:18 -0700 Elham Omrani <elh.omrani at yahoo.com> wrote ---- 

Dear AndreyI'm PhD student and in my thesis is "Implementation of stereo vision system for obstacle detection in solar boat"this is my website:http://emorvarid.ut. ac.ir/Members.htm 
Elham    On Monday, August 1, 2016 11:27 AM, support-list <support-list at support.elphel. com> wrote:

 Dear Elham,

What kind of project is it ? Is it a personal, commercial, student/Ph.D research, something else? We did sponsor some interesting projects before and we plan to resume it with the new cameras starting this Fall.

Andrey

---- On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 23:29:40 -0700 Elham Omrani<elh.omrani at yahoo.com> wrote ---- 

Dear Andrey,Thank you for good guidance and suggestion. in your website, you have explained that this camera can be develop by c++ and opencv is one of c++ libraries.NC393-H camera is very expensive for me.
SinserlyElham 

    On Monday, August 1, 2016 10:32 AM, support-list <support-list at support.elphel. com> wrote:

 Dear Elham,

The most flexible solution will be something like this - http://blog.elphel.com/wp- content/uploads/2016/05/nc- 393-printed-H-.jpeg , you will be able to change configuration if you'll need to.

You can run opencv in the camera (not possible in the older NC353), but it will not be probably fast enough. On the other hand we plan to add more configurable image correlation processing into the FPGA (here id the block diagram of the current FPGA code), so you will be able to start with the external computer processing and later (probably in a year) to do some correlation in the camera in real time.

Andrey

---- On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 22:37:44 -0700 Elham Omrani<elh.omrani at yahoo.com> wrote ---- 

Dear Andrey,Thanks for your good reply.My project is navigation and obstacle avoidance of a boat in outdoor. so I want to help me in choosing proper stereo camera.We want to use Opencv program.Yes, this program can use color or monochrome images.SinserlyElham 

    On Monday, August 1, 2016 9:50 AM, support-list <support-list at support.elphel. com> wrote:

 Dear Elpham,

There are many other issues that need to be considered when you select configuration of the stereo camera
What type of objects you need to measure, their angular size
What resolution do you need - angular and in distance
What software are you going to use - what kinds of lens distortions it can tolerate/compensate?
Does this software use color or monochrome images?
And many more

I would also recommend trying more than just 2 sensors - our experience indicates that it is much easier to avoid ambiguity before doing any feature extraction by just combining 3 or 4 images instead of 2.

Andrey

---- On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 22:03:09 -0700 Elham Omrani<elh.omrani at yahoo.com> wrote ---- 

Dear Andrey,
Thank you for your kindly answering and suggestion. I think NC353 camera with 5MPix resolution is enough for me(because of high speed of algorithm). in my project i need to see the depth of 50 meters(max).In your opinion is it possible? And the parameters of  focal length and angle of view in what range should be? Elham 

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