[Elphel-support] the problems from the hdd (in short)

Fri Feb 3 18:41:23 PST 2012

2012/2/3 Elphel Support | Andrey Filippov <support at elphel.com>:
> Looking at the photos (they are very helpful, thanks!)

i explain myself with photos better than writting in english :P

> I realized that the
> camera did have a manufacturing defect. It did not prevent the camera from
> working properly, but made the board too fragile - more than it has to be.
> All the connector pins were soldered OK (you can see the traces if the pins
> peeled off, but the two guide pins (large ones that go through the holes)
> were not soldered. The signal pins are soldered in the reflow oven with all
> other SMT components but those two pins had to me manually soldered and we
> missed that they were not. So when repairing the board in the local shop (if
> you'll be able to find one) - please ask them to solder those two pins also.

Ok, so i need to know how to obtain the piece, the name, the pcb says
103692 zif adapter, and the broken conector seems to be hard fixed to
the pbc...
we need to remove this and get a new one, it's a common piece? the
wiki doesnt show the new model.

If there is no problem in working without this part (i dont see why),
we are thinking to continue with our plans and test the camera a few
weeks more while looking for a local shop
(as we dont need the hdd for the moment and are nowadays out of budget
due to the taxes issue) if there is no need i'm not going to open
(more) the camera till we find a fixer.

do you think it's risky to use the camera in this conditions?

>What can we do to warn everybody to get our (Elphel engineers) recommendations before doing that? Our hardware is all open, of course, we do not want to discourage >anybody from hacking it, but it is still delicate piece of equipment and we are always eager to help with advices how to do that safer.

i have a few recomendations. first to warn the costumers when shipping
the equipment. Assuming your product has a +1 due his open hardware
nature, i think you should include explicit reference about this
issues, ie, the links about piecing the camera oleg has send me are
extremely useful and would have been useful inside the case you nicely
suit the camera. And maybe add a notice calling to get in touch with
the techs if you plan to open the camera. I think no one of consumers
of your cameras can see this as a minus. This is as useful as the
allen keys you include.
And about the support list it works fine but i can tell you that i
realiced that oleg was a proper tech from elphel when i see some oleg
mention in the linux boot at the camera. technicians would be useful
to be presented as such the first time they interact with a customer.
Of course this does not detract from the effective assistance oleg has
given to me.
I must say i'm not complaining at all, i am trying to be constructive,
sincerely.

>
> On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Carlos Padial <palidoestudio2 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> well, unfortunately I have started to open the camera and examine the
>> connections before the arrival of andrey's mail and now the problem is
>> more serious.
>> The hard disk connection to the plate 10369 has been separated by
>> where is welded.
>>
>> I opened the camera already once before and was alert about the
>> sensitive short cable.
>> i must say i have been extremely careful when I open the camera, and I
>> dont think that has forced the connection at all. I noticed that the
>> connection was loose and by moving it slightly it was released.
>>
>> ???
>>
>> 2012/2/3 Sebastian Pichelhofer <sebastian.pichelhofer at gmail.com>:
>> > Ah, I did not know it is a camera with INTERNAL HDD.
>> >
>> > Yes makes perfect sense. All my comments assumed it is an external HDD
>> > connected via SATA port.
>> >
>> > Regards Sebastian
>> >
>> > On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 17:16, Andrey Filippov
>> > <support-list at support.elphel.com> wrote:
>> >> Sebastian,
>> >>
>> >> 4096 byte blocks are not the problem in the 353 cameras - they all now
>> >> have
>> >> this block size. Please see our Development Blog post on that matter:
>> >>
>> >> http://blog.elphel.com/2010/11/elphel-cameras-and-4096-4k-sector-drives/
>> >>
>> >> And the disk was correctly formatted and tested _in the camera_ (not in
>> >> the
>> >> external computer) - it is not a good idea to try to remove it - the
>> >> flex
>> >> cable is not so easy to handle if you do not have such experience
>> >> already. I
>> >> believe Carlos should continue to follow Oleg's instructions - it was
>> >> he who
>> >> formatted and tested the HDD in the camera
>> >>
>> >> Andrey
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Sebastian Pichelhofer
>> >> <sebastian.pichelhofer at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 16:44, Carlos Padial <palidoestudio2 at gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> >> OK so do I understand this correctly that the new 4K block size of
>> >>> >> newer harddisks is the problem:
>> >>> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_sector ?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > dont know, but this you say remember me something readed about this
>> >>> > digging in the list archive. But i dont fully understand if it was
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > same case. it was about using ext3... and my disk was formated as
>> >>> > ext2... (i believe)
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> Since the embedded linux in the 353 camera is already several years
>> >>> >> old it could well be the case that it has problems with 4K sectors.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> Carlos, one idea: Could you prepare the HDD and the partition
>> >>> >> tables
>> >>> >> on a PC and then see if the camera can talk to it nicely.
>> >>> > i am afraid i dont have this kind of conexion for this, i will look
>> >>> > for an adapter...
>> >>> > what kind of hardware i need for this?
>> >>>
>> >>> The SATA port on the camera is the very same connector as in any
>> >>> normal
>> >>> PC.
>> >>> If you only have a laptop you can use any external HDD (eg. USB2)
>> >>> enclosure.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards Sebastian
>> >>>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> I do think we should put a notice on the wiki about the 4K sector
>> >>> >> problem once we have a full understanding, and probably recommend
>> >>> >> customers to not use/or use with caution 4K HDDs for now.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Yes, i think this shoud be done. But i have not full understanding
>> >>> > of
>> >>> > the problem yet.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > So there is no other way?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Thanks oleg and sebastian for your support.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> Regards Sebastian
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 14:28, Carlos Padial
>> >>> >> <palidoestudio2 at gmail.com>
>> >>> >> wrote:
>> >>> >>> Thanks to oleg who kindly help me a lot yesterday, we have narrow
>> >>> >>> down
>> >>> >>> the problem to this one:
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> # fdisk -l
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Note: sector size is 4096 (not 512)
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Disk /dev/hda: 120.0 GB, 120034123776 bytes
>> >>> >>> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 1824 cylinders
>> >>> >>> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 4096 = 65802240 bytes
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Disk /dev/hda doesn't contain a valid partition table
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> So i need to make a new partition table.
>> >>> >>> I found about fix tables with cfdisk but seems its not installed
>> >>> >>> With the -o option in fdisk the changes seems not  to be applied
>> >>> >>> at
>> >>> >>> all...
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> someone knows how to proceed?
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> best regards.
>> >>> >>> --
>> >>> >>> Carlos Padial
>> >>> >>> surreal.asturnazari.es
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > --
>> >>> > Carlos Padial
>> >>> > surreal.asturnazari.es
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Support-list mailing list
>> >>> Support-list at support.elphel.com
>> >>>
>> >>> http://support.elphel.com/mailman/listinfo/support-list_support.elphel.com
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Carlos Padial
>> surreal.asturnazari.es
>
>

-- 
Carlos Padial
surreal.asturnazari.es